Let’s begin by discussing the Ministry of Communes’ current plan to reactivate assembly-based decision-making processes of the kind that Chávez used to promote.

Venezuela’s communes and communal councils are coming out of a period of dormancy. Their activity and momentum had significantly declined in the past few years. An important portion of both the leadership and the bases had become inactive, partly due to the devastating impact of the economic situation, but also because parallel structures had been established that shadowed the communal organizations in ways that were far from productive. 

For example, every communal council has a food committee, but the introduction of parallel CLAP food committees – which were appointed by the party [PSUV] and not linked to the communal councils – created conflicts and distortions at the local level. This led to the deactivation of many communal councils and communes and it diminished their original spirit of collective work.

All of this eroded the spirit that Chávez instilled in the communes. What we see as our primary task at the Ministry of Communes is to reignite and re-dynamize these spaces of assembly.

Decisions in a communal council or a commune cannot be made by just two or three people. The goal is self-governance by and for the people. It’s necessary to reactivate the communal assembly, which is the highest decision-making body in a community. All of the Ministry of Communes’ plans, according to President Nicolás Maduro’s directions, are now focused on this. The people must be the ones making the decisions.

What mechanisms are you implementing to make this plan to reactivate communal assemblies a reality?

We are traveling around the country organizing assemblies, asking communities to reactivate the assembly processes and also the committees in each communal council.

Let me explain this better: there are 49,183 community councils in the country, and each has around 20 committees with different tasks, from finances to sports, education, and healthcare. To take a specific case, every communal council has a health committee whose spokesperson works with the people to identify and prioritize healthcare needs.

 Moving onto the next level: if a commune has ten communal councils, ten healthcare committees will come together to identify health-related problems in the commune as a whole and draft a communal health plan, which will have to be debated and ratified by the assembly. Finally, at the overall communal level, the healthcare plan is implemented in collaboration with the Ministry of Health.

This process allows communal organizations to identify their needs from the ground up. It’s how the commune’s self-governance plan emerges. Right now, we are in the phase of identifying needs, systematizing them, and drafting self-government plans in each community council and commune. The goal is to activate participatory mechanisms to solve problems. This will, in turn, revive the assembly spirit that was at the heart of Chávez’s vision for the communes.

President Maduro has talked about a new method of governance for Venezuela. Does this connect with the process of reactivating the communes that you have just described?

The president has urged his government team to invent a new way of governing, and he said that this must involve the communes.

Let’s go back to the example of the health committees to illustrate what we mean by this new form of governance. If communal councils, communes, and clusters of communes (which are the way to becoming communal cities) themselves map out their healthcare needs, then the whole way of doing things changes. It will no longer be a process of plans being drafted in the air-conditioned offices of the Ministry of Health.

After this process of self-organization is completed, the Ministry of Health can draft a national health plan based on the diagnoses being made by the people in their community councils and communes. This isn’t just a dream; it’s already being promoted by the president and it’s called the Communal Health Plan.

Please tell us about the National Popular Consultations, better known as “communal consultations.” There have been two rounds so far – April and August 2024 — and a third one will be held soon. Could you explain the purpose of these consultations and how they work?

A commune is a group of people living in a territory who recognize themselves as a governing body and have a collective plan. In promoting these consultations, President Maduro is asking communes to identify their own needs and priorities. This process combines assemblies with voting – it’s a beautiful exercise because it allows communities to envision a better future while recognizing that not all needs can be addressed immediately.

Here’s how it works: in a commune or communal circuit, each communal council proposes three projects that must have a wide impact in the community, meaning they address the needs of the commune as a whole, not just the particular communal council. Then, the commune or communal circuit selects seven projects in an assembly. Finally, on the day of the consultation, people vote on one of the seven projects by secret ballot, and the project with the most votes is funded by the government.

You mentioned that both communes and communal circuits participate in the consultation process. What is the difference between the two?

As of today, Venezuela has 3,642 registered communes and 866 communal circuits. Communal circuits are clusters of community councils that haven’t yet been officially registered as communes. In some cases, they haven’t completed the process to formalize their commune, while in others, the Ministry has been remiss in the registration process. 

We are working hard to solve this issue, but in the meantime, both communes and communal circuits participate in the consultation process.

Can you say something about the kinds of projects that are being selected in the communal consultations?

Currently, most projects focus on addressing issues related to basic services like water, electricity, and road repair. However, many communes are fixing schools or healthcare centers, while others are promoting productive initiatives for the benefit of the people.

The collective deliberation and planning process that accompanies the consultations is helping communities envision a better future and rekindle self-governance. In other words, these consultations are not only valuable because funds are made available to address very real problems, but because they also encourage and strengthen the process of self-government.

The consultations have proven effective in encouraging self-government. However, the amount of funding per project is small. Is this a limitation?

Each project receives the equivalent of 10,000 USD, which is indeed a small amount, especially considering that these projects are meant to impact the lives of thousands of people positively. We would like for the amount of funding to be larger, of course, but our country’s resources are limited due to the US blockade.

Nevertheless, by bypassing traditional institution channels like municipal and regional-level governments, resources are being delivered directly from the national government to the communes. This is part of the new governance method that President Maduro is promoting.

These consultations are a step towards a new way of governing where the people are in charge and make their own decisions. By respecting the pueblo’s choices, the national government is strengthening communal self-government. 

We are moving closer to a unified system in which governance starts at the communal council level, advances to the commune, and eventually culminates in communal cities. But these communal cities cannot just exist on paper. Right now, on paper, there are 200 communal cities registered in the ministry, but real and operative communal cities will emerge after communal councils come together to construct health plans, merge them at the commune level, and eventually unite multiple communes for the creation of collective governance projects at the city level. Only then will we see the emergence of true communal cities with genuine self-governance.

Once a project has been chosen through a consultation process, is it also easier to have it carried out in the community?

Absolutely. It’s no secret what happens when the bourgeois state implements a project. Resources allocated by the national government tend to diminish significantly due to inefficiencies, corruption, and commissions that are inherent to the logic of capital. For instance, if a project in Petare is approved, by the time the funds reach the barrio, the originally-assigned funds become a fraction of the initial investment.

On the other hand, when resources are directly allocated to communes, things play out very differently. Communes consistently deliver high-quality work. For example, if you compare outcomes between a company hired to paint a school and a commune taking on the same task, you will almost always see that the commune completes the task at a fraction of the cost and with better results. Companies are driven by profit, so they often use cheaper materials and take a large portion of the funds for themselves. In contrast, communes invest in better materials and carry out the work with integrity. The result is that the state gets far more value for its money when working with communes.

The consultations will play a key role in the new form of governance that President Maduro is advocating for. This means the process needs to be streamlined and continuously improved.

What were the main challenges you identified in the first two consultation processes?

In the first consultation, a major issue was that local and national state institutions were not engaged in implementing the projects hand in hand with the communes. For example, over 25% of communes prioritized water-related projects, but the institutions that deal with water issues at both local and national levels didn’t see these projects as their responsibility – they had other priorities. After identifying this problem, the president instructed all relevant institutions to fully support communal projects.

Another related problem is that months after the April 2024 consultation, we found that around 1,000 communes hadn’t touched the funds deposited in their bank accounts. Initially, we wondered if there was a problem in those communes, but after contacting them, we discovered that over 80% were simply waiting for technical support. Without support, it’s difficult to execute infrastructure projects like water or electricity.

Now, every institution is required to work closely with the communes – they are expected to sit down with the people to develop a plan together. 

Additionally, while 10,000 USD might not be enough to address every problem, we’ve now established that projects can be implemented in phases to allow for more funding.

The consultations have transformed the relationship between the government and the people. Although resources are limited, the impact has been substantial. Building a wall to prevent a landslide, providing water to 500 families, or restoring electricity to a community that has been in the dark for years, these are projects that really make a difference.

We are still working to overcome some obstacles, but we’re making progress. 

The so-called “Congress for the New Historical Bloc” is currently underway. I understand that the communes will play a significant role in that congress. Can you tell us more about it?

The Congress is part of the government’s broader strategy and it began with community councils holding assemblies to define projects and plans based on local needs. These were then uploaded to the Ministry of Planning’s system, which collects communal self-governance plans. With some 49,000 community councils in Venezuela, there should ideally be 49,000 plans. We are not there yet, but we’re moving in that direction.

The second stage of the Congress is at the commune or communal circuit level, where each builds a larger plan based on the community council plans and, again, uploads a unified self-government plan to the system as well.

The third stage, at the regional level, is coming soon. During this period, communes from each state will come together in large workgroups across different sectors. These plans will also be uploaded.

In this way, the final deliberation process at the national level will be linked to what people are identifying as problems in the territory. Additionally, national, regional, and municipal institutions will have a comprehensive understanding of people’s needs, allowing them to design their plans accordingly. 

The Congress is designed to transform governance, ensuring that it responds directly to the needs of the pueblo. From now on, institutions will no longer create their plans in isolation.

Chávez emphasized the need for a robust and reciprocal relationship between popular power, on the one hand, and the government, on the other. Clear steps are being taken in this direction. Do you have any general thoughts on the matter?

Firstly, we should remember Chávez’s “Strike at the Helm” discourse in October 2012. In that speech, he even considered eliminating the Ministry of Communes, because he felt that other ministries weren’t supporting communal organization – they saw communes as the exclusive responsibility of the Ministry of Communes. We are still facing this challenge, although it’s beginning to change.

Secondly, for some time now, there’s been a lack of connection between popular power and some local authorities, whom we might call “de facto powers.” These people will often try to control popular power, causing tension and wearing down the grassroots movement. Party leaders and elected officials must recognize the communal organizations in their area, and understand that grassroots spokespeople are legitimate because they are chosen through participatory, free, and direct elections. Chávez’s philosophy was about putting the people first, yet some still try to undermine or control communal bodies.

One of the Ministry of Communes tasks is to promote a better understanding between the communes and the de facto powers in the territories, ensuring there are no divisions within Chavismo. We are making progress in this regard.The commune isn’t just another sector: it’s not a fourth level of government or a sixth power, as some say. The commune is the basis for the new communal state that Chávez envisioned. We are working tirelessly to make this new state – which will eventually deliver a final blow to the bourgeois state – into a reality.